Episode 57: Urban Agriculture, Compost, and Water
“From the urban farmers that I’ve worked and interfaced with, some of them have rain catchment systems and also use gray water. But for the most part, urban farmers are relying on municipal water supplies for their irrigation, which can cause issues in a few different ways”
A conversation with soil microbial ecologist Dr. Joshua Garcia about farming in cities, composting, and regenerative agriculture. Released October 18, 2024.
guests on the show
Dr. Joshua Garcia
Dr. Josh Garcia is an NSF & UC President’s Postdoctoral Fellow with the UC Davis Department of Land, Air, and Water Resources. He received his Bachelor of Science in Biology from UC Davis in 2017 and his PhD in Integrative Plant Science from Cornell University in 2022. His PhD research broadly examined how bacteria and fungi in soils regulate biogeochemical processes and specialty crop traits using a diverse range of research methodologies. As a postdoctoral fellow, Dr. Garcia is currently conducting research to examine how regenerative soil management practices can support soil biodiversity and improve soil health in field-based and urban agroecosystems. In July 2025, he will join the Life and Environmental Sciences Department at UC Merced as an Assistant Professor in Soil Biology and Sustainable Agriculture. You can learn more about his work at joshuagarciaphd.com
TRANSCRIPT
Mallika Nocco
Welcome to Water Talk. Today we are going to be thinking about urban agriculture and water and also what goes on in the soil in these different types of agricultural systems. I'm really excited because we're going to be talking with someone that I think of as a rising star in this area, who is Dr Joshua Garcia. I learned about how different urban ag systems are from more rural conventional agricultural systems, just doing extension in these areas, and working with these types of farms a little bit during the droughtier years back in California.
And just like the way I think of agriculture, and I advise farmers who are going through a drought, it had to be so different on those farms, just because of some of the reasons that people were farming were fundamentally different. I would go in and talk to folks about ways to have the least amount of impact, for example, on yields during a drought when water became scarce. And I'll never forget it, there was a farmer on a small urban farm, and she was just like, you know, I don't really do this for the yields. And then I had to kind of rethink, what do I tell this person? And how do I think about this? But yeah, Sam, what are your thoughts on urban agriculture?
Sam Sandoval
I'm also really excited to talk to Joshua and urban agriculture, I think, is a good way to build a bridge between people and where they get their food. You will have a larger impact on the specifics of building that bridge that I think sometimes is very distant. I do think that the scale and all the logistics are very different from larger scales, and unfortunately, most of the times, mono agriculture than urban agriculture, that typically is a more diverse it has to do with a lot of different crops produce. The other one is that it goes also with how you can get your resources? And I think Josh will talk about it. Some of it might be the compost, some of your feet or improving the soil, and one of the ingredients may be that, how can you keep that soil healthy, healthy for a longer time in water? And just for the listeners, urban water is typically on the order of at least 10 times more expensive than agricultural water.
Mallika Nocco
Urban agriculture, sometimes because of the scale at which it's being done, and then also, a lot of people who go into it seem to be very socially motivated.
Sam Sandoval
That will also refer to other podcast episodes when we talked about the folks from well, Victor Diego and Leti, yes, is cold anger, right? As you're saying, of some of the motivation is just being in a food desert where you don't have healthy food around it, or the community that you are part of is segregated to access to these healthy foods, and that comes with the spirit, the initiative to to go and and create these urban systems.
Mallika Nocco
Dang. Sam, that's a deep cut, a deep Water Talk cut. I like that. I like that. You made that connection because I hadn't thought about that cold anger in a while. It just shows that sometimes I think anger can be so useful and can spur folks into action, right? I think you're right. Like thinking about this particular case and people being motivated, or being in a food desert, or being in areas where they want access to fresh, direct food, or sometimes the motivation is just community, right? Like thinking about ways to help, especially kids and folks in the community have a closer connection with their food, I think can also spur folks to action. And Sam's deep cut, for those who maybe don't remember it is from Episode 43 in season four, educating and empowering elected officials, where we talked about that cold anger. Anything else you want to mention?
Sam Sandoval
One last thing I really want to ask him about. He does some of that. I think this might be a new term for our audience. It was a new term for me. Yeah, that interface between the roots and the soil and the water. But definitely, really looking forward to Dr Garcia's response to that.
Mallika Nocco
Yes, absolutely. We will talk about the rhizosphere, that is a really fun and just cool concept to think about. So we will be sure to do that. So without further ado, let's talk with Dr Joshua Garcia.
Welcome to Water Talk. In today's episode, we are talking with Dr Joshua Garcia, an NSF and University of California President's postdoctoral fellow with the UC Davis Department of Land, Air and Water Resources. He received his Bachelor of Science in Biology from UC Davis in 2017 and his PhD in integrative plant science from Cornell University in 2022. Dr Garcia is currently conducting research to examine how regenerative soil management practices can support soil biodiversity and improve soil health in urban ecosystems, urban agro ecosystems, I should say. And in July 2025 he will be joining the Life and Environmental Sciences Department at the University of California, Merced as an assistant professor in soil biology and sustainable agriculture. Welcome to Water Talk, Dr Garcia!
Joshua Garcia
Thank you guys so much for that lovely introduction and for having me on the show. Yeah, really excited to be here today to chat a little bit about soils and water with you all.
Mallika Nocco
And of course, urban agriculture, right? So we are just so honored to have you here, Josh, can you please tell us a little bit more about your path to soil and water conservation, like specifically, how did you get interested in urban agriculture?
Joshua Garcia
Yeah, so for me, I think my path to where I am now kind of started back when I was an undergraduate here at UC Davis. When I started my undergrad studies here, I decided to major in biology, because it was always my favorite subject in school, and I was really curious about Earth's biodiversity and ecosystems when I did a few different internships back when I was an undergrad here at UC Davis, to kind of figure out what I liked within the field. Did some soil chemistry, did some forest ecology and studied trees in the Sierra Nevada.
But for me, things really clicked when I started working with Dr Amélie Gaudin’s lab in agroecology here, and working in the lab really opened my eyes, and was really a formative experience for me, and for me, I was really fascinated with this idea of taking a more ecological approach to improving our food systems and leveraging biodiversity and ecosystem processes to support crop production under climate change. But specifically within all of that, I was interested in the soil microbiome, or, you know, the bacteria and fungi that live in soil when their role in sustainable agriculture, and decided to pursue my PhD in that area. And so for graduate school, I had the opportunity to attend the School of Integrative Plant Sciences at Cornell University when I worked in rhizosphere ecology…
Mallika Nocco
Gotta pause, yes, yeah, absolutely. There's a bunch of cool things that you said that we need to follow up on like one, I have to ask. So you said the soil microbiome, and is that, like the microbiome of our gut that we always talk about, but just in the soil.
Joshua Garcia
That's exactly correct. So the microbiome is similar to how we have bacteria in our guts that help us digest certain foods and that influence our health. There's also bacteria and other microorganisms in the soil that do the same thing for the soil environment and they influence soil health. I mean, they also influence plant health and plant growth as well. So what I like to tell people is that, you know, I study plant probiotics, is kind of the way I put it. And I study how microorganisms in the soil and in the environment influence plant health and plant growth.
Sam Sandoval
Yeah, the rhizosphere. So basically, I was getting ready for this interview, I started looking at the word rhizosphere. So would you mind sharing with us and the audience about what that means?
Joshua Garcia
Yeah, so the rhizosphere is this area of the soil that exists between the plant root and the bulk soil environment. So it's kind of this interface within the soil where the plant is interacting with the organisms that live in the soil and with the soil environment more broadly and the rhizosphere. What fascinates me about it is that it's kind of this hotspot for biodiversity. In the rhizosphere, you can basically find all the different branches of the tree of life represented, you know, we have bacteria, fungi, plants. You know, we have small arthropods and nematodes. You know, with this really rich biodiversity, there are tons of complex ecological interactions taking place in the rhizosphere that have very big influences on plant traits. Also biogeochemical processes in the soil as well.
Mallika Nocco
So Josh, is the rhizosphere such a cool place and such a biodiverse place because of photosynthesis? Or is it because of there being more water near the roots, because plants are trying to capture water and use the water, or is it kind of like an all of the above situation, or, like, what? Why is it so special?
Joshua Garcia
Yeah, kind of exactly like you mentioned. It's kind of an all of the above situation. So in the rhizosphere, one of the things that attracts microbes to the rhizosphere is the fact that plants are kind of pumping carbon and photosynthates, you know, into the soil environment. And so that attracts microorganisms to the rhizosphere, and there's a ton of research to show that microbial richness, or the number of microbes in the soil, is significantly higher when you have plant roots in the rhizosphere compared to the bulk soil environment.
But in addition to carbon, the other thing that attracts microbes to the rhizosphere is the water and water exchange that's happening between the plant and the soil, exactly like you mentioned. You know, with that water, microbes are able to grow and multiply. It's also kind of this two way street. The plant roots are also able to grow and expand in the soil environment, which kind of is this feedback loop. And with more plant root growth, there's more microbial growth and microbial activity in the soil as well. So overall, it's this really kind of rich and complex mini ecosystem. Again, I just find it fascinating that there's all this biodiversity there. There's all these exchanges and interactions between all these different organisms in the rhizosphere.
Mallika Nocco
Yeah, it kind of makes me want to shrink myself. Like, go there, you know, and check it out. Like, it sounds so cool. I know it's like a Magic School Bus reference for anybody that remembers that show. What makes you want to study them in urban settings or in urban agriculture? Like, what's special about urban agriculture to you?
Joshua Garcia
I think what got me back when I was a graduate student, when I was doing all this, you know, really cool and awesome rhizosphere work. I loved it, and I found it really interesting. But for me, I felt like it was kind of missing something. And particularly when I was in grad school, I was involved a lot with diversity, equity, inclusion and justice efforts, both on campus and off campus. And for me, I didn't really like that those two parts of my work in life were kind of like siloed and separated for one another, and so what I wanted to do was kind of integrate them and pursue opportunities where I would be able to study, you know, the rhizosphere on the soil microbiome, but also work with the community and engage with the community, and interface directly with farmers to answer these questions that we have about the rhizosphere and below ground ecology.
So then when I was a graduate student, I found that I was able to do all of that in urban agriculture. So, I did some community gardening in the Ithaca area. I also worked with Cornell Cooperative Extension, looking at doing some compost research in New York City. And through all of those different experiences, I became really curious about urban soils and urban agro ecosystems and just the ecological interactions that take place in these agro ecosystems, because they're different from more traditional agro ecosystems that a lot of our research takes place in.
And I guess from a more personal side,, one of the reasons why I really love and I'm passionate about urban agriculture is because I see how it's an opportunity for me to engage directly with my community and people that I share my cultural background with. I really love and appreciate all those aspects of urban agriculture. I love that I get to do this interesting science, but also engage with the community in the process.
Mallika Nocco
At this point, you've actually worked with several different urban farms. What are some of the unique challenges faced by urban farmers and what can you tell us about them as a group? Like, how are the people who are doing urban agriculture, the urban farmers, how are they different from the folks who are farming outside of cities and more traditional systems? Yeah.
Joshua Garcia
I think one of the things that I love and appreciate about urban farmers and urban farming is just how diverse it is. I think one question that I always get from people is, y when they hear that I study urban agriculture, they're like, oh, you know, what do you mean by that, what counts as urban agriculture. But I always tell people that I consider it agriculture that takes place where the people live, and it kind of comes in these different shapes and sizes.
So, you know, we have small scale, diversified farms that kind of resemble more traditional farms that are kind of just embedded in the urban landscape. But we also have, you know, school gardens, we have community gardens. We have backyard farms and people that have converted their yard into edible landscapes. We also have, you know, controlled environment agriculture and vertical farming as well in the urban environment. And so, you know, it comes with all these different shapes and sizes.
And along with that, urban farmers are also growing lots of different crops as well. And a big focus of urban farming is cultivating specialty fruits and vegetables as well, and growing crops that you maybe wouldn't find at the grocery store. And so those are all things that I love about urban agriculture is just how, again, diverse it is in terms of the shape and form that it comes in, but also what people are growing as well.
And in addition to that, I'll also kind of just throw in there that one of the things that I love and appreciate about urban farmers is that they're very excited and enthusiastic about climate smart and regenerative practices, and that's actually the norm for urban farmers to implement those practices and adopt those practices on their farm. But in addition to that, they're also really into the whole farm to fork connection, and the whole concept of one health as well, this idea that our human health is connected to our environmental health. And so those are in a nutshell the general observations that I've had about urban farmers.
And, you know, all the things that I love about urban farmers, but kind of like you guys mentioned, you know, the challenges that they face are also very different from more traditional farmers. And I like to kind of point out that for urban farmers, there's these social and also biophysical challenges that they face. So on the social side of things is access to markets. So urban farmers don't have the same access to markets that more traditional farmers would have, because they might not have specific certifications or specific licenses that you need to sell somewhere, like a farmer's market or something. And so those are kind of the social challenges that they face.
But there's also, like I mentioned, the biophysical challenges. So one of the big ones is soil degradation and contamination in the urban environment, which stems from all this disturbance in the urban environment, and also all these issues of pollution and environmental injustices in the urban environment. But in addition to that, there's also these other biophysical challenges in urban agriculture as well, such as access to water, and also issues of drought as well. Thinking about drought in urban agriculture and urban ecosystems is, I think it's particularly interesting because drought and climate change are kind of hitting urban environments differently than they are hitting more traditional environments that more traditional farmers might be in. I think that's kind of interesting, you know, bringing it back to water. And I think, like, that's a really interesting thing to think about, and something that we need to think about when it comes to sustainable urban agro ecosystem management.
Sam Sandoval
So in essence, what is, where do urban farmers get their water?
Joshua Garcia
Yeah, so from speaking from my experiences with the urban farmers that I've worked with and interfaced with, some of them have rain catchment systems, and they also use gray water. Through those kinds of avenues, they're able to supply their own water. But for the most part, urban farmers, the ones that I've worked with, a lot of them, are relying on municipal water supplies for their irrigation, which can cause issues in a few different ways, especially here in California.
So one of the ways that could be a particular challenge for urban farmers is that when drought conditions get really bad here in the state, like what we saw back when I was an undergraduate, when we had that huge five year drought, municipalities can actually limit water usage, and they'll tell you what days you can and can't water. You know, use water for things like your lawn or to wash your car. And urban farmers, you know, aren't exempt from those kinds of restrictions, and they have to follow those restrictions just like everybody else. And that could be particularly a big problem for urban farmers, especially if they're growing more water intensive crops or crops that need more regular irrigation, or if they're growing in somewhere like Sacramento, where it's a little bit hotter and drier than cities towards the coast.
But in addition to that, you know, another issue with using or relying on municipal water is it's also very expensive. When certain municipalities don't charge just a flat rate for the water, they actually charge more the more water you use, the higher your rate is going to be. And so again, if you're growing water intensive crops, you know, the more you water it, the more you're going to be paying for that water. And that's particularly a challenge or a concern for urban farmers, because a lot of them are operating as you know, nonprofits, and they're operating on small budgets, so they might not have the money or the resources to pay for this water. So those are a couple of different, you know, issues with the water supply.
Sam Sandoval
Just to further that, how do they manage their water systems? Do they have irrigation systems? They have soil moisture sensors? How typically do they manage their water system?
Joshua Garcia
In general, what I've seen a lot on urban farms is that they're mostly just doing, like, drip irrigation. I want to say, like, they're not as precise maybe as more traditional farmers would be.. And you know, larger scale farms, or on larger scale farms right now, precision irrigation and tools like that to kind of optimize water usage. Urban farmers, for the most part, they're not that exact with their with their irrigation, but I will throw out there one of the things that I appreciate about urban farmers is that they're implementing these climate smart and regenerative practices that maybe that can help them conserve water and soil. Maybe it's just not in the more scientific, or in the more exact way, like a more traditional farmer would do it. But you know, they're implementing these regenerative practices that can improve soil water infiltration and water holding capacity and can help conserve water long term in their soils. So for the most part, again, they're not as exact with their irrigation, but the approach that they're taking to their farming can ultimately help them conserve water and optimize their water usage.
Mallika Nocco
I want to talk about what you said related to regenerative agriculture. We want to know more just about the work that you've been doing that's at the intersection of waste recycling and soil and water. I know that you've been working with all of these different types of compost, and we haven't talked very much about compost on Water Talk before, which seems kind of wild to me actually. But can you just tell us what compost is at its core, and how could it help with water quality, water quantity, like, what are specifically some of these climate smart things that compost can do when you integrate it into an urban farm?
Joshua Garcia
Yeah, so that's a really great question. So compost, I kind of describe it in a nutshell, is basically just decomposed organic matter, and it's typically made from waste products like old food scraps, yard trimmings and animal manure. And there's lots of different composting methods and approaches to composting, but at the core what we're doing with composting is we're taking old organic matter and setting up the condition for microbes and other small organisms like bugs to come in and decompose that organic matter for us, and what we end up with at the end of that decomposition process is this really rich and kind of earthy product that we can incorporate into the soil. And that increases soil organic matter, which provides a myriad of soil health benefits on farms.
Recently, some of the work that I've been doing with compost is in collaboration with a bunch of different community organizations out in Oakland and San Francisco, and we're looking at how different composts that are available to urban farmers in the region influence different soil health metrics. So we're looking at how this compost influences soil biodiversity and looking at how it influences the soil microbiome. We're also looking at how compost can influence chemical properties, like pH, and we're also looking at physical properties as well, including water holding capacity, infiltration, aggregate stability.
And in addition to looking at all of these different soil properties, we're also looking at how it influences plant performance as well. We're focusing on our project on tomatoes, but we're looking at above ground biomass production. We're also looking at fruit yield. And in addition to looking at yield, we're also looking at fruit quality, and looking at how these changes in soil health might translate into differences in crop taste and crop quality. And trying to think beyond yield, and think about not just the quantity of the crop that we get, but the quality of the crop, which, like I mentioned, is really interesting for urban farmers, because, you know, again, a lot of them are interested in this whole farm to fork kind of connection, and the connections between what happens in the food system and the food that we, you know, we eat on our plates. So it's actually like, you know, a big question.
I get that question a lot from urban farmers when I talk to them about this project, is, Oh, what did you discover about what happens with the soil and the fruit quality? Yeah. So it's a really big selling point for a lot of urban farmers.
Mallika Nocco
I gotta ask, what types of compost did you look at? What? What were the different ones you're looking at?
Joshua Garcia
Yeah, so in this project, we looked at four different composts that are available to urban farmers in the region, that were all made from different feed stocks and that were all made from different composting processes. So the first compost that we looked at was a food waste compost which was produced by a local municipal composting facility, which was composed mainly of food scraps from households and restaurants. The second compost that we looked at was a yard waste compost which was produced by a composting company out in the Central Valley, and it was composed mainly of yard trimmings from the East Bay and from the South Bay. The third compost that we looked at was an animal waste compost from the Oakland Zoo, which was a mix of herbivore waste from throughout the zoo. And the fourth compost that we looked at was this liquid compost that's produced by a fertilizer company here in Sacramento that is basically just a bio digested produce waste from the supermarket.
And so the idea here was to see how these different composts were made from different materials. They were all made through different composting processes. So what we wanted to do was look at how that might influence, you know, their effects on soil health, and again, also their effects on crop production and crop quality in these urban soils. And we actually see huge differences between these different composts that we looked at in particular, we saw that the animal waste compost seemed to do a really great job at supporting soil biodiversity and increased microbial biomass in the soil. And in addition to that, we also saw that the usage of the animal waste compost and the liquid food waste hydrolysate actually improved tomato bricks, which is a measure of the soluble sugars and the tomato juices, and is kind of an indicator of tomato taste and quality.
And so that was one of the super interesting results from this project. I found it really interesting that, you know, these amendments had these effects on the soil microbiome and had these effects on crop quality. And so something I'm really curious about is kind of that connection between soil management and soil biology and crop quality, and digging into what might be, why might we have seen those differences a little bit more and I think more broadly, the project was really interesting because it shows that, you know, there's a lot of nuance with compost.
Mallika Nocco
That's a takeaway for me, is just like what you described, like the sources, like, everything is so different, and I get that, and I feel like there's also just trade offs and availability. Like, we can't all use zoo compost for everything all the time, but it makes sense that, like, all of the animals together will create something really special.
Sam Sandoval
And I mean right now that you're talking about all the compost and the bricks in the tomatoes, I'm pretty sure by now our audience is really interested in becoming an urban farmer. So what advice do you give to people who are interested in becoming a new farmer in an urban setting? And perhaps, what are some of these biophysical or social aspects that they should consider, such as soils, water or crops?
Joshua Garcia
Yeah, yeah. So that's a really great question. Through my work with urban farmers, I have a couple of general recommendations that I always give them. First and foremost, what I always tell people is, before you get into urban farming, take some time to get to know the soil, I mean, to also get to know that slice of land that you're working with.
So, you know, like we talked about earlier, a big issue in urban agriculture is soil contamination. These contaminants are coming from sources like old lead paint on these old houses. They're coming from exhaust pipes on cars. So what I tell people is to take some time to see if that's an issue in your soil, and to test your soil to see if you have those contaminants and that's maybe something you want to manage for.
But the story doesn't just stop with contaminants. There's also other kinds of biophysical issues with urban soil. One of them that I've seen that's very common is soil compaction. So some of these urban farms that I've worked with, they're, you know, one urban farm that I worked with, they were kind of gifted this plot of land, but in the past it was, there was a house on that land, and so the soil was so the soil was super duper compacted. It was basically just gravel, and it was really hard to get a shovel into that soil. So seeing them on that farm, I was really proud of their approach to that soil. They mentioned to me that they were gonna spend a couple years just growing some sort of cover crop, or growing some sort of grass or something in that soil to reduce that compaction and bring it back to life. And so, you know, so that's a, kind of an example of another common, you know, soil challenge in the urban environment.
But also, kind of another big challenge is also low soil fertility and low soil carbon as well. And I think, like those things come from these, like, histories of disturbance in the urban environment. And kind of just historically, how we've left urban soils. There's not a house or a lawn or something on it. We're just, you know, we just leave the urban soil alone, and don't, you know, steward it or grow anything in it, or anything you know, which isn't the best for soil carbon and soil fertility. So all that's to say, what I recommend to people when they want to get started with urban farming and urban soil stewardship is taking some time to learn a little bit more about the soil. Learn its history. If there's, you know, potentially contaminants that you might need to worry about, test the soil, see what its carbon, what its nutrients look like. See if there's issues of compaction that you might need to deal with.
I started a project with an urban farm down in Fremont, and we designed this project where we're looking at these plots on their land that have been managed regeneratively, and they also have these plots that have just been left fallow and that are just bare urban soil. So what we did with this project was we collected soil samples from these different areas on their farm, and we used the setup to ask or answer this question of, does regenerative agriculture actually build up urban soils, and does it actually support soil health and biodiversity? And we actually see there's the cleanest, I tell people, it's the cleanest data set like I've ever worked with. And the difference is, yeah, and the difference is in soil, you know, soil health, between that bare soil and the regeneratively managed soil is, you know, it's night and day.
You know, we see with the regeneratively managed soil, there's huge increases in carbon, and also, you know, and more specifically, available carbon, there's also huge increases in microbial abundance and microbial biomass in the regeneratively managed plots. I also think of a general recommendation that I have for folks, which I don't have to push too hard for. Again, in urban ag spaces, it's just picking crops that makes sense for your environment, and also being open to adapting if needed so. And I think, you know, again, that's something that I don't have to push too hard for. I think that's something urban ag practitioners are already cognizant of, and already do a lot of them. They have an explicit goal to just plant drought tolerant native species or local plant species on their farms, because, you know, they know that it doesn't require as much water and doesn't require as much intensive, you know, intensive care.
Mallika Nocco
So what do you see in the future, like, what are some of the big challenges around regenerative agriculture, recycling, you know, waste and producing food in cities? What are the possibilities that you think could make cities focal points in adapting food systems for climate change?
Joshua Garcia
That's a really awesome question. I think, yeah, there's a lot to kind of unpack and, you know, dig into there. I think in terms of challenges the regenerative ag side, I think one of the biggest challenges that we face is not so much in maybe the urban ag scene, but I think more generally, there's a lot of farmer hesitancy, and a lot of farmers find that there's a lack of relevant evidence for these different management practices. I don't blame them necessarily, because there's still a lot about regenerative practices that we don't know, and that are going to take some time to dig into and figure out. So I think that's, you know, one of the big challenges on the regenerative ag side is, you know, just again farmer hesitancy and, you know, just lingering questions.
I guess on the waste recycling side, here in California, we recently passed SB 1383 which mandates that we have to divert a certain portion of organic waste in the state to compost production by 2026, so with that, I'm sure you know if you go to a restaurant, or, you know if you go, if you go to a restaurant here in California nowadays, you'll see three bins now for waste. You'll see a landfill bid, you'll see a recycling bid, and you'll see an organics bid. And so, with that, with this law, well, one of the faults with it is that we're relying on people to properly sort their waste and to know what waste goes where, like, you know, should this waste go in the landfill? Is it compostable? Should I just recycle it? So I think that that's a big challenge with you know waste recycling is improper waste sorting, which I think kind of stems from a lack of public engagement and education surrounding waste recycling.
Sam Sandoval
Josh, yeah, thank you. Thank you for all the work that you have done on urban farming and your natural skills towards Cooperative Extension and communicating, building that bridge the work in soil health and all the rhizosphere work that you're doing, and also to inspire, and I think this is something important to inspire researchers or people that are that are very advocate about diversity, equity and inclusion to to marry that with their interest, with research or with their vocation. So thank you for all of that.
Mallika Nocco
Sam, that's a good point. I remember when I was a grad student, someone telling me that I shouldn't do that. You know, like, it's just great to hear how much times have changed. Or, like, they, I don't know, just, like, not awesome stuff, of like, how, like, if I did that, the science wouldn't be, like, as interesting or good, or I wouldn't be taken as seriously, or all sorts of crap that I remember being said about this. Actually, it's the opposite. I feel like the science that you're just describing is, like, very fascinating. And I think those students at UC Merced are going to be really lucky to have you around.
Sam Sandoval
And the matter of fact that we should be more conscious about the work, or the vocation, the profession that we're doing, who is benefiting, and how can we make this world more diverse, more equitable for everyone anyway. So is there anything that you would like to people know about your work that you haven't discussed, or how can we support your work?
Joshua Garcia
I think, just general kind of recommendations or calls to action that I have for folks. I think one is going back to, you know, your comment Mallika about people being like, oh, like, you know, if you do this or that, that's not interesting science. I think I've kind of gotten similar comments in my work where people are like, urban farming, that's just a trend, or, you know, that's just, like a hobby people do and stuff, which I like to push back against. And I like to think about urban farming not just as, you know, a trend or like a hobby. I like to think about it more like a tool for climate change adaptation. And also, you know, something that provides all these benefits to urban communities. You know, provides biodiversity to urban communities. It also provides, you know, of course, food. There's also, you know, improvements in mental and physical health for urban residents and economic opportunities.
I guess one thing I would say and encourage people to do, after hopefully listening to this episode, is to just engage a little bit more with urban farming and think a little bit more about how we can incorporate urban farming into the ag world and ag research. And I guess, I recommend folks also get involved with your local urban farms. And to also, in addition to that, get involved with waste reduction efforts in your communities as well. At home, I got into worm composting, and I historically have shied away from composting because I was like, I don't think I'm skilled enough to do it. But worm composting is, I always tell people, the easiest, that's beginner composting. It's very easy. And I don't know, personally, I just find it so satisfying that I recycled all of this old food scraps from my kitchen into this rich soil amendment.
Mallika Nocco
I got into it too. I don't know if I shared this. Yeah, I actually also got a worm bin, and it is kind of magical. And it does feel good. And you don't realize how many scraps you produce sometimes when you cook, because you're just like I have all of this carrot peel, or the bottom of celery, or there's so many parts that you don't necessarily cook with that could be food for these worms and then compost gold for the garden. But yeah, I also got it, and I felt nervous too, because my partner was just like, okay, we have 1000 living worms. Are we gonna have like, 1000 dead worms in a few months? And so I do check on them and, like, make sure doing okay with it. But yeah, so far so good.
Joshua Garcia
I am excited to hear that you also got into worm composting. I think one thing I'll throw out there too, like, one of the things that I love about worm composting is it's actually made me more conscious of what I eat, honestly. I was at a workshop a couple weeks ago, and one of the facilitators was like composting, it makes you eat healthier, because it's like, oh, I want to feed my worms. And, maybe I'll pick up that banana instead of a bag of potato chips. It makes me more conscious of my food choices and like what I eat and like what I can recycle and so on and so forth. So, yeah, think more about waste reduction and get involved with waste reduction in whatever shape or form makes sense for you.
Sam Sandoval
So listening to all these urban farming gospel and the compost is definitely make me think twice that I should go back and do more of the European farming at home.
Joshua Garcia
Yeah, definitely. I talked about a lot of urban farmers I've worked with, you know, they're growing some trees in their backyard, and they have backyard orchards and chickens, and you know, all of that. And I don't know, I think it's, you know, a really beautiful thing. And I would definitely encourage, yeah, encourage you, Sam, if you feel compelled, to get into at home growing or gardening.
Mallika Nocco
Wonderful. Thank you so much, Josh. We really appreciate you joining us today.
Joshua Garcia
Yeah, thank you guys so much for having me. Yeah, it's been really great. Yeah, big fan of the program and excited and honored to be a guest. Thank you.